The Incredibly Small Number of 'Breaking' DIY Artists...

Business related issues revolving around Independent Music.

Re: The Incredibly Small Number of 'Breaking' DIY Artists...

Postby Chris K. » Tue Jan 26, 2010 5:29 pm

ROXI wrote:Chris K, if you need more information on;

Connect with Fans (CwF) + Reason to Buy (RtB) = The Business Model

let me know, but I think you are allready aware of this successful market plan and the International Association of Entertainment Lawyers


Thanks Roxi ... i always like more information. my email is chriskmusic@gmail.com

Stephen ... Again, I am sorry for my brusque attitude. I was very successful as a direct-sales sales-trainer for over a decade. I am generally very unhappy with the way in which retail people are taught their skills. What I KNOW about human nature is that we prefer limited options ... limited choice. NOT ALL PEOPLE ... BUT MOST ... really MOST.

You don't need me to tell you how to sell ... you're right ... and it's not something I do now ... unless I'm specifically contracted to do so, which is increasingly rare as I move further out of that industry.

So, my apologizes sir ... I'm sorry.
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Re: The Incredibly Small Number of 'Breaking' DIY Artists...

Postby ROXI » Tue Jan 26, 2010 7:23 pm

Chris K. wrote:
ROXI wrote:Chris K, if you need more information on;

Connect with Fans (CwF) + Reason to Buy (RtB) = The Business Model

let me know, but I think you are allready aware of this successful market plan and the International Association of Entertainment Lawyers


Thanks Roxi ... i always like more information. my email is chriskmusic@gmail.com


Sent. :thumb:
In a world of Zombies, I'm alone with a match, a beer and a bong, and my heart has turned into stone. Glorify only what you want your child to emulate
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Re: The Incredibly Small Number of 'Breaking' DIY Artists...

Postby Chris K. » Tue Jan 26, 2010 7:42 pm

Got it ... read it ... thanks .. good stuff in there :)
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Re: The Incredibly Small Number of 'Breaking' DIY Artists...

Postby ROXI » Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:01 pm

Chris K. wrote:Got it ... read it ... thanks .. good stuff in there :)


Another way to view it is the long Tail vs the short tail argument.

Short tail is Elvis getting 1% of a 5 million sales "hit".

Long tail is you getting 75% of a 2,000 production run of your latest CD.

Sure Elvis made more money... but your costs are next to nil on the next 2,000 cd's, so its really all on you to "Sell" your "Product", which is where the CtF comes in.

Really, there was a time we needed the "Big Music Labels" to distribute our product, now we can distribute it for "free" (file sharing) and sell something that cannot be pirated (the performance, personal contact with fans).

Another fun comparison that was made... For many years people had to have buttons to fasten clothing together... so unions formed in France to protect button makers. Then along comes the invention of the Zipper and the button manufacturers pressed for legislation to "protect their industry".

Sound familiar? There was a time when musicians made a living PERFORMING... not recording. Perhaps that time is coming back?
In a world of Zombies, I'm alone with a match, a beer and a bong, and my heart has turned into stone. Glorify only what you want your child to emulate
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Re: The Incredibly Small Number of 'Breaking' DIY Artists...

Postby Chris K. » Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:39 pm

Sound familiar? There was a time when musicians made a living PERFORMING... not recording. Perhaps that time is coming back?


I think there's pro'bly a little bit of room for both ... but it also depends on what you call performance.

Movie stars were just that .. same with TV stars ... same could be said for video stars .... some of whom only perform to the camera.

On the live side of music it's getting more difficult to make a buck, because of again the change in the scarcity paradigm. The customer is now the scarcity not the music or the venue ... so the level of competition has increased immeasurably.

The super-fest where 50, 75, 100 bands play over 1 or 2 days is becoming what we used to think of when we'd have 5 or 6 bands on a bill ... and the local band, esp original acts, have a much more challenging time getting people out --- particularly if you're over 35 or so it seems.
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Re: The Incredibly Small Number of 'Breaking' DIY Artists...

Postby Steve Ison » Sat Mar 06, 2010 12:59 pm

I get amazed how riled and depressed i always get with your posts n comments Chris-tho i still kinda enjoy reading them lol...I suppose its 'cos on some level your constantly pragmatic,reductionist philosophy is true and you can't argue with it...Its true in the buisness sense where everything simply boils down to the $$$..

It crushes the imagination ,makes art seem meaningless and belittles and insults people whilst pretending all the while its serving them..

Its like the artistic sensibility is to do with freedom,idealism,affecting people emotionally,beauty,magic,individuality and quality of consciousness....Its the opposite of cold hard buisness which cares about none of those things.....Everything gets crushed into the same question..Can we-or can't we sell it? Thats the 'meaning' in buisness.. In that world Achey Breakey Heart is a far superior song to anything ever made by any indie anywhere-'cos it made more money...Insane from an artistic perspective-but undeniably true from a buisness one..

It kinda explains why often the best marketers for music are rarely the best artists..If your headspace is constantly geared toward selling-fitting yourself into a marketplace-your creativity's gonna be chained to that-and not be as free and individual in expressing your love for the music-which ultimately means the most to people in the end..
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Re: The Incredibly Small Number of 'Breaking' DIY Artists...

Postby Chris K. » Sat Mar 06, 2010 6:25 pm

Steve Ison wrote:I get amazed how riled and depressed i always get with your posts n comments Chris-tho i still kinda enjoy reading them lol...I suppose its 'cos on some level your constantly pragmatic,reductionist philosophy is true and you can't argue with it...Its true in the buisness sense where everything simply boils down to the $$$..

It crushes the imagination, makes art seem meaningless and belittles and insults people whilst pretending all the while its serving them..

It's like the artistic sensibility is to do with freedom, idealism, affecting people emotionally, beauty, magic, individuality and quality of consciousness.... It's the opposite of cold hard business which cares about none of those things.....Everything gets crushed into the same question..Can we-or can't we sell it? That's the 'meaning' in business.. In that world Achey Breaky Heart is a far superior song to anything ever made by any indie anywhere-'cos it made more money... Insane from an artistic perspective-but undeniably true from a business one..

It kinda explains why often the best marketers for music are rarely the best artists..If your headspace is constantly geared toward selling-fitting yourself into a marketplace-your creativity's gonna be chained to that-and not be as free and individual in expressing your love for the music-which ultimately means the most to people in the end..



And yet, the thing that people come to me for relentlessly is to answer the question: how do I make some money doing what I'm doing? How can I get into your festival, onto your stage or your radio program... how can I sell more tickets, more records, more downloads - where's the store who will accept me?

I make music today because it satisfies my soul. Once upon a time I performed for a living - it was how I paid my bills - and I did 'okay' with that - I didn't have to be creative; I was a living jukebox within a preconceived style of music.

Every single musician I know comes to me with the same questions --- how then can I not be pragmatic?

I love the artistry of music - at every level, from the novice beginner regardless of age to the virtuoso wizened by age and experience .... but I can't play every level of music on my radio program or put every level of music on a festival stage...

I recently did sound for a local music school --- kids from 6 to 70 performing --- many of them for the very first time ... it was thrilling! I did not have to worry about whether they or I made money. The venue I work at booked it without considering whether it would make money for them, because, of course, they knew it would (when kids are involved, the parents come out - and money is spent).

I cannot quantify the experience.
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